Church Gun

  • Join our community of outdoor enthusiasts! Subscribe to Field Ethos Magazine to unlock full forum access and connect with fellow adventurers sharing their stories, tips, and experiences.

    If you are already a subscriber, log in here.
The pocket guns are great to carry but I would hate to actually have to hit something with one in this scenario. Itā€™s probably 70 yards from where I sit to the back door of the sanctuary. Long shot with any handgun under stress. Add in a couple hundred screaming people running in all directionsā€¦

I usually carry a P365XL and recognize that it will be a bad day for us if someone shows up with a long gun and a hateful heart.
 
Keith Wood said:
The pocket guns are great to carry but I would hate to actually have to hit something with one in this scenario. Itā€™s probably 70 yards from where I sit to the back door of the sanctuary. Long shot with any handgun under stress. Add in a couple hundred screaming people running in all directionsā€¦

I usually carry a P365XL and recognize that it will be a bad day for us if someone shows up with a long gun and a hateful heart.
Click to expand...
Iā€™ll take you with a P365XL over some random dude with a long gun 10/10. But youā€™re the exception and I agree for most people thatā€™s a recipe for a bad day.
 
@Keith Wood

Flash bangs fit conveniently in a blazer pocket, Iā€™d wager you can toss one the length of the church, that will buy you time to evade, or get closer where damage can be inflictedā€¦

Keith Wood said:
The pocket guns are great to carry but I would hate to actually have to hit something with one in this scenario. Itā€™s probably 70 yards from where I sit to the back door of the sanctuary. Long shot with any handgun under stress. Add in a couple hundred screaming people running in all directionsā€¦

I usually carry a P365XL and recognize that it will be a bad day for us if someone shows up with a long gun and a hateful heart.
Click to expand...
 
Keith Wood said:
The pocket guns are great to carry but I would hate to actually have to hit something with one in this scenario. Itā€™s probably 70 yards from where I sit to the back door of the sanctuary. Long shot with any handgun under stress. Add in a couple hundred screaming people running in all directionsā€¦

I usually carry a P365XL and recognize that it will be a bad day for us if someone shows up with a long gun and a hateful heart.
Click to expand...
A friend that is smarter than me pulled up the google earth image of my church and did some measuring of the roof and suggested I break out a range finder and do some inside ranging, longest shot was 63 yards, I shared the info with the folks that needed to know.
 
Thatā€™s creative recon, Bravo!

Chiro1989 said:
A friend that is smarter than me pulled up the google earth image of my church and did some measuring of the roof and suggested I break out a range finder and do some inside ranging, longest shot was 63 yards, I shared the info with the folks that needed to know.
Click to expand...
 
Godfather said:
@Keith Wood

Flash bangs fit conveniently in a blazer pocket, Iā€™d wager you can toss one the length of the church, that will buy you time to evade, or get closer where damage can be inflictedā€¦
Click to expand...
Flashbangs are an incredible tool, although I suspect that they are difficult to come by for the average citizen. I'm not as heavenly bound as some on this thread, but now we're talking tactics, and I've got pretty extensive experience regarding active shooters whether it's a school, a mall, a place of business or any public gathering place for that matter. I've personally responded to a handful of actual active shooter incidents, the most notable of which was the active shooter at the Tacoma Mall in 2005. Previously in my career when I was annually asked to give a presentation regarding how to respond to an "Active Threat Event" to Tacoma Public Schools, or The Mall management team, I would teach them as "victims" they have 3 options... FIGHT, RUN, HIDE... as responders we only have 1 option... ASSAULT ASSAULT ASSAULT!
I would imagine in the church scenario there's a traditional large open room where the pulpit and speaker are at one end of the room, and a large gathering of people within the open space, and entry/exit doors at the other end with (in our scenario a shooter) entering through and blazing away. The unarmed members of the church or the "victims" really have nowhere to go other than the floor or behind a pew, etc. The only way to stop the threat is to FIGHT. Assault Assault Assault.. with whatever you have at hand. Preferably the handgun of your choice, or a cached sub gun somewhere by the pulpit. Flashbangs work but understand they will also disorient and panic the members of the church too. I don't know your churches, I don't know if you really feel the need to have overwatch during services, or how far you actually want to take this scenario. But if you're serious about it, and you believe that it is a real threat you need to mitigate, then I would suggest you conduct Active Threat Response drills regularly. Just like fire drills, or earthquake drills, etc. Who's going to do what? Who's locking down the Sunday school? do you have trauma bags ready to immediately treat gunshot wounds? Because the reality is, it's going to be a few minutes or several minutes before any other help arrives. YOU will have to stop the threat, you will have to apply tourniquets, or people will die in the meantime.
One last thing before I step off my milk crate... It's not a popular thing to say, especially on this site with all the real men and hardcore shooters... but it's not enough to simply "carry" a gun... whatever gun... you need to be able not only to use it, but VERY competent with it. Like Hostage Rescue competent... how accurate are you under stress/duress? How fast can you draw and fire at various distance accurately? Remember we're talking about shooting across a room full of people that may or may not be frantically running everywhere... can you realistically make the shot? do you have balls enough to rapidly close with and engage the shooter to be sure you can make the shot? Have you trained with other members of your congregation to work together to conduct an Active Threat Response or heaven forbid, the guy has barricaded himself in a Sunday school classroom, can you conduct a room entry and Hostage Rescue? And lastly, from personal experience... I've met lots of guys who were packing and when it came down to it, they didn't stop the threat because when it came down to it, they couldn't bring themselves to shoot and kill another human. This is what happened during the Tacoma Mall shooting... out of all the shoppers at the mall, one guy was carrying concealed, and was in the right place at the right time and he couldn't bring himself to actually shoot the shooter. Instead, he approached him from behind and ordered him to drop his gun... when the shooter turned, he gave him more commands to drop his gun and when the shooter shot him and put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, he still couldn't bring himself to shoot the guy. I've responded to carjackings where the citizen driver was armed and thought by brandishing his weapon to the carjacker they "would flee"... instead they took his gun and made him leave his car. When I asked him why he was even carrying a weapon if he wasn't prepared to use it, the driver said that he bought the "gun for protection" and he always thought that if he carried the gun, and brandished it, the bad guys would run away... real bad guys don't run away... they keep coming until they're done or until good men/women stop them. Period.
 
After the Tacoma Mall Shooting in 2005, the Mall requested we regularly conduct Active Threat Response training annually at the mall. Too little too late as always, but it has helped for future incidents.
 

Attachments

  • SWAT.jpg
    SWAT.jpg
    142.4 KB · Views: 4
battlerattle24 said:
Flashbangs are an incredible tool, although I suspect that they are difficult to come by for the average citizen. I'm not as heavenly bound as some on this thread, but now we're talking tactics, and I've got pretty extensive experience regarding active shooters whether it's a school, a mall, a place of business or any public gathering place for that matter. I've personally responded to a handful of actual active shooter incidents, the most notable of which was the active shooter at the Tacoma Mall in 2005. Previously in my career when I was annually asked to give a presentation regarding how to respond to an "Active Threat Event" to Tacoma Public Schools, or The Mall management team, I would teach them as "victims" they have 3 options... FIGHT, RUN, HIDE... as responders we only have 1 option... ASSAULT ASSAULT ASSAULT!
I would imagine in the church scenario there's a traditional large open room where the pulpit and speaker are at one end of the room, and a large gathering of people within the open space, and entry/exit doors at the other end with (in our scenario a shooter) entering through and blazing away. The unarmed members of the church or the "victims" really have nowhere to go other than the floor or behind a pew, etc. The only way to stop the threat is to FIGHT. Assault Assault Assault.. with whatever you have at hand. Preferably the handgun of your choice, or a cached sub gun somewhere by the pulpit. Flashbangs work but understand they will also disorient and panic the members of the church too. I don't know your churches, I don't know if you really feel the need to have overwatch during services, or how far you actually want to take this scenario. But if you're serious about it, and you believe that it is a real threat you need to mitigate, then I would suggest you conduct Active Threat Response drills regularly. Just like fire drills, or earthquake drills, etc. Who's going to do what? Who's locking down the Sunday school? do you have trauma bags ready to immediately treat gunshot wounds? Because the reality is, it's going to be a few minutes or several minutes before any other help arrives. YOU will have to stop the threat, you will have to apply tourniquets, or people will die in the meantime.
One last thing before I step off my milk crate... It's not a popular thing to say, especially on this site with all the real men and hardcore shooters... but it's not enough to simply "carry" a gun... whatever gun... you need to be able not only to use it, but VERY competent with it. Like Hostage Rescue competent... how accurate are you under stress/duress? How fast can you draw and fire at various distance accurately? Remember we're talking about shooting across a room full of people that may or may not be frantically running everywhere... can you realistically make the shot? do you have balls enough to rapidly close with and engage the shooter to be sure you can make the shot? Have you trained with other members of your congregation to work together to conduct an Active Threat Response or heaven forbid, the guy has barricaded himself in a Sunday school classroom, can you conduct a room entry and Hostage Rescue? And lastly, from personal experience... I've met lots of guys who were packing and when it came down to it, they didn't stop the threat because when it came down to it, they couldn't bring themselves to shoot and kill another human. This is what happened during the Tacoma Mall shooting... out of all the shoppers at the mall, one guy was carrying concealed, and was in the right place at the right time and he couldn't bring himself to actually shoot the shooter. Instead, he approached him from behind and ordered him to drop his gun... when the shooter turned, he gave him more commands to drop his gun and when the shooter shot him and put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, he still couldn't bring himself to shoot the guy. I've responded to carjackings where the citizen driver was armed and thought by brandishing his weapon to the carjacker they "would flee"... instead they took his gun and made him leave his car. When I asked him why he was even carrying a weapon if he wasn't prepared to use it, the driver said that he bought the "gun for protection" and he always thought that if he carried the gun, and brandished it, the bad guys would run away... real bad guys don't run away... they keep coming until they're done or until good men/women stop them. Period.
Click to expand...
Some paragraphs would have been helpful in there, but otherwise, good dope, thanks
 
battlerattle24 said:
Flashbangs are an incredible tool, although I suspect that they are difficult to come by for the average citizen. I'm not as heavenly bound as some on this thread, but now we're talking tactics, and I've got pretty extensive experience regarding active shooters whether it's a school, a mall, a place of business or any public gathering place for that matter. I've personally responded to a handful of actual active shooter incidents, the most notable of which was the active shooter at the Tacoma Mall in 2005. Previously in my career when I was annually asked to give a presentation regarding how to respond to an "Active Threat Event" to Tacoma Public Schools, or The Mall management team, I would teach them as "victims" they have 3 options... FIGHT, RUN, HIDE... as responders we only have 1 option... ASSAULT ASSAULT ASSAULT!
I would imagine in the church scenario there's a traditional large open room where the pulpit and speaker are at one end of the room, and a large gathering of people within the open space, and entry/exit doors at the other end with (in our scenario a shooter) entering through and blazing away. The unarmed members of the church or the "victims" really have nowhere to go other than the floor or behind a pew, etc. The only way to stop the threat is to FIGHT. Assault Assault Assault.. with whatever you have at hand. Preferably the handgun of your choice, or a cached sub gun somewhere by the pulpit. Flashbangs work but understand they will also disorient and panic the members of the church too. I don't know your churches, I don't know if you really feel the need to have overwatch during services, or how far you actually want to take this scenario. But if you're serious about it, and you believe that it is a real threat you need to mitigate, then I would suggest you conduct Active Threat Response drills regularly. Just like fire drills, or earthquake drills, etc. Who's going to do what? Who's locking down the Sunday school? do you have trauma bags ready to immediately treat gunshot wounds? Because the reality is, it's going to be a few minutes or several minutes before any other help arrives. YOU will have to stop the threat, you will have to apply tourniquets, or people will die in the meantime.
One last thing before I step off my milk crate... It's not a popular thing to say, especially on this site with all the real men and hardcore shooters... but it's not enough to simply "carry" a gun... whatever gun... you need to be able not only to use it, but VERY competent with it. Like Hostage Rescue competent... how accurate are you under stress/duress? How fast can you draw and fire at various distance accurately? Remember we're talking about shooting across a room full of people that may or may not be frantically running everywhere... can you realistically make the shot? do you have balls enough to rapidly close with and engage the shooter to be sure you can make the shot? Have you trained with other members of your congregation to work together to conduct an Active Threat Response or heaven forbid, the guy has barricaded himself in a Sunday school classroom, can you conduct a room entry and Hostage Rescue? And lastly, from personal experience... I've met lots of guys who were packing and when it came down to it, they didn't stop the threat because when it came down to it, they couldn't bring themselves to shoot and kill another human. This is what happened during the Tacoma Mall shooting... out of all the shoppers at the mall, one guy was carrying concealed, and was in the right place at the right time and he couldn't bring himself to actually shoot the shooter. Instead, he approached him from behind and ordered him to drop his gun... when the shooter turned, he gave him more commands to drop his gun and when the shooter shot him and put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, he still couldn't bring himself to shoot the guy. I've responded to carjackings where the citizen driver was armed and thought by brandishing his weapon to the carjacker they "would flee"... instead they took his gun and made him leave his car. When I asked him why he was even carrying a weapon if he wasn't prepared to use it, the driver said that he bought the "gun for protection" and he always thought that if he carried the gun, and brandished it, the bad guys would run away... real bad guys don't run away... they keep coming until they're done or until good men/women stop them. Period.
Click to expand...

battlerattle24 said:
I apologize for any grammatical errors. I can't type to begin with, I hunt and peck with my index finger.
Click to expand...
Typing on a phone is the suck. Ask me how I no. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Christian Craighead
Carry Gun
2 3
Replies
45
Views
2K
Chiro1989
Chiro1989
Omega Watch Guy
What are you carrying currently?
2
Replies
30
Views
640
Charlie Benton
Charlie Benton
snow_knight
S&W FE 2.0 10mm
Replies
1
Views
42
Ron Dan
Ron Dan
G
Question for revolver guys
2
Replies
24
Views
272
Ron Dan
Ron Dan
Jake wade
Bedside Gun Storage and Kids
Replies
14
Views
177
Jake wade
Jake wade
Back
Top