I'm bringing back the .40

[Keith Wood]

Seriously. I wanted a lightweight backup gun for bear country. I bought one of those slick holsters that rides under your bino bra. Really handy way to carry a gun but I wanted to keep the size & weight to a minimum.

I've got a bunch of big bore revolvers but all of them are too heavy for what I wanted. Even my 10mms were bulkier that I would have liked.

I've become friendly with Ted McIntyre at Lost River Ammunition. He lives in Idaho and has a bunch of real-world experience thanks to his time in LE, as a contractor and being around big bears on a regular basis. He loads some super-cool niche stuff-- .44 Russian wadcutter, anyone?

He sold me on his 170gr. +P SWC load in .40 S&W. 1200 fps out of a Glock 20. I ordered some and picked up a police trade-in M&P .40 for like $229. The gun shot great with that ammo and was light and compact enough to ride on my gut without being too uncomfortable.

I'm a fan.

 

[Jeff Forrester]

Seriously. I wanted a lightweight backup gun for bear country. I bought one of those slick holsters that rides under your bino bra. Really handy way to carry a gun but I wanted to keep the size & weight to a minimum.

I've got a bunch of big bore revolvers but all of them are too heavy for what I wanted. Even my 10mms were bulkier that I would have liked.

I've become friendly with Ted McIntyre at Lost River Ammunition. He lives in Idaho and has a bunch of real-world experience thanks to his time in LE, as a contractor and being around big bears on a regular basis. He loads some super-cool niche stuff-- .44 Russian wadcutter, anyone?

He sold me on his 170gr. +P SWC load in .40 S&W. 1200 fps out of a Glock 20. I ordered some and picked up a police trade-in M&P .40 for like $229. The gun shot great with that ammo and was light and compact enough to ride on my gut without being too uncomfortable.

I'm a fan.

View attachment 94

 

[Jeff Forrester]

As a new hunter, would the .40 be enough for a bear?

 

[Keith Wood]

Generally speaking, handguns suck at killing things. Ever notice how you'll see a news story where the cops shot a guy 12 times and he lived? That doesn't happen with rifles. If you knew you were going to have to shoot a big bear, you'd never choose a handgun over a big bore rifle.

I've never killed a grizzly bear but I've killed a charging elephant and the concept is the same: you're not going to "stop" him with physics; the best that you can do is put a hole through his brain/spine. Penetration is key-- that means a tough bullet that doesn't expand or deviate from its path when it hits bone. The hard SWC (semi-wadcutter) is a good bullet for that task. Heat-treated lead bullets are way harder that you'd think and act like monolithic solids.

In terms of cartridge, a .40 S&W is simply a shortened 10mm Auto-- it fires the same diameter bullet. With the Lost River load, the .40's velocity nearly overlaps with the 10mm out of the same length barrel. Basically, the animal isn't going to know the difference. Maybe one day I'll find myself on my back getting my guts chewed on by a grizzly thinking "Damn, I needed another 100 fps of velocity" but my guess is that won't matter.

 

[Jeff Forrester]

Generally speaking, handguns suck at killing things. Ever notice how you'll see a news story where the cops shot a guy 12 times and he lived? That doesn't happen with rifles. If you knew you were going to have to shoot a big bear, you'd never choose a handgun over a big bore rifle.

I've never killed a grizzly bear but I've killed a charging elephant and the concept is the same: you're not going to "stop" him with physics; the best that you can do is put a hole through his brain/spine. Penetration is key-- that means a tough bullet that doesn't expand or deviate from its path when it hits bone. The hard SWC (semi-wadcutter) is a good bullet for that task. Heat-treated lead bullets are way harder that you'd think and act like monolithic solids.

In terms of cartridge, a .40 S&W is simply a shortened 10mm Auto-- it fires the same diameter bullet. With the Lost River load, the .40's velocity nearly overlaps with the 10mm out of the same length barrel. Basically, the animal isn't going to know the difference. Maybe one day I'll find myself on my back getting my guts chewed on by a grizzly thinking "Damn, I needed another 100 fps of velocity" but my guess is that won't matter.

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Kyle Wright]

I know it wasn’t the point of the thread, but because of the love affair with the 9mm, I’ve scored some great deals the last few years on .40s, too.

 

[Jason Vincent]

“I wouldn’t shoot a brown bear with a 10mm because I don’t want to die with my ears ringing.”

Some funny old man said this a few years back and I’ve never forgotten it.

But I still carry a 10mm in brown bear country because I can score more good hits with it quickly than I can with any magnum double action revolver.

Still don’t like my chances if I don’t have a rifle.

 

[deadeyejunior]

I would say 10mm would be the absolute minimum, if the 40 is loaded hot to 10mm ballistics then it should work.

I had this run in with a grizz a few years ago while bowhunting elk, he tracked me for 170yds(discovered after) and ended up at 9yds. I had my Glock 19 9mm, never have I felt so under gunned, like Red Ryder BB gun undergunned. I bought a Glock 10mm the next day. Video linked, I thought it was going to get ugly when he passed that tree so wanted some evidence.


Bear video

 

[mteague90]

I’ve seen those holsters. How do you like it? I normally wear a GFI kenai, which I love, but of course it isn’t compatible with a bino harness.

Does the pistol get in the way of anything? How is the draw?

 

[Keith Wood]

I’ve seen those holsters. How do you like it? I normally wear a GFI kenai, which I love, but of course it isn’t compatible with a bino harness.

Does the pistol get in the way of anything? How is the draw?

Honestly, it’s pretty comfortable. I thought that the rigid back might dig in but I had enough layers on that it wasn’t a problem. Might be less comfortable in a T-shirt. So far I’ve only used it on one backcountry hunt but I basically forgot that I had it on.

Retention was good and the draw was smooth. Pretty intuitive.

 

[snow_knight]

I opted for the glock 23 in 40 with some heavy corbon (which was very close to 10mm with buffalo bore for ft/engery) for my archery elk hunt this year in idaho over my glock 10mm.. it was easier to pack and brown bear density where I was hunting was low.. and thankfully never needed it.

 

[nickmuckerman]

I got a Glock model 22 in .40 as soon as I was old enough to buy one in college.

A game warden in Tennessee took it away about four years later and the judge did not give it back...this was due to a new (at the time) law that forbid killing an albino deer, even in season with a valid tag. I didn't kill the deer with it, but had it on me.

I bought another one shortly after to replace it. It isn't the greatest carry gun for bow hunting elk in grizzly country, but it's better than nothing.

Tennessee can eat a d.

 

[chan.vanlandingham]

Generally speaking, handguns suck at killing things. Ever notice how you'll see a news story where the cops shot a guy 12 times and he lived? That doesn't happen with rifles. If you knew you were going to have to shoot a big bear, you'd never choose a handgun over a big bore rifle.

I've never killed a grizzly bear but I've killed a charging elephant and the concept is the same: you're not going to "stop" him with physics; the best that you can do is put a hole through his brain/spine. Penetration is key-- that means a tough bullet that doesn't expand or deviate from its path when it hits bone. The hard SWC (semi-wadcutter) is a good bullet for that task. Heat-treated lead bullets are way harder that you'd think and act like monolithic solids.

In terms of cartridge, a .40 S&W is simply a shortened 10mm Auto-- it fires the same diameter bullet. With the Lost River load, the .40's velocity nearly overlaps with the 10mm out of the same length barrel. Basically, the animal isn't going to know the difference. Maybe one day I'll find myself on my back getting my guts chewed on by a grizzly thinking "Damn, I needed another 100 fps of velocity" but my guess is that won't matter.

Thoughts on a .45 auto in bear country? I’ve got a Springfield 1911 that was a gift, so won’t be trading it off. It’s obviously not an ultra light weight backpack hunting rig, but would you carry it on a day hunt/hike?

I have zero experience shooting at things that are trying to kill me. All insight is appreciated.

 

[deadeyejunior]

Deep penetration is what matters in bear defense, 45acp is not the best choice for that due to low velocity and low sectional density. Your best option with it is a good hard cast +P round.

 

[chan.vanlandingham]

For penetration, are you looking at velocity or ft/lb energy? Or something else?

 

[htwindsor]

I have carried a Colt Python, a 1911 in .45ACP, and a Glock in .40SW for bear defense. I carried the .45 because that's what I had at the time. I didn't think it was ideal, but I figured 8+ rounds of 230gr hardball might make a bear think about the price of lunch. Other than the tracks that circled my tent, the closest grizzly was 200 yards away that trip. Today you can get way better .45 bear-type ammo than the old FMJ. Most of the threats where I normally go are either two-legged or something like a cougar or black bear. The .40SW with BB Outdoorsman loads should work, and I did carry that combo for years. These days, because we have had a grizzly show up in our mountain range, I carry a SA XD in 10mm in a GFI Kenai chest rig. I chose this after a long talk with a very knowledgeable friend in Alaska. One mag is BB Outdoorsman and another is SuperVel HP. I switch mags depending upon where I am. I keep an HP round in the pipe. That said, I take a 12 gauge loaded with Brenneke slugs if I truly think there is a serious bear problem.

 

[Chad Adams]

I like .40. Snappy, violent, loud. For when you really want inaccurate follow-up shots when speed matters most. I carried a HK USP Compact for years, even in places I shouldn't have (What's up DC!). My first real carry gun. Then eventually traded it even for an old school S&W 29. I kinda wish I still had the USP though. This is what the .40 does to you, it confuses and makes you do dumb shit, like trade it for wheel guns or carry it for bear defense.