Is the Scout Rifle Dead?

[Chad Adams]

I always loved Cooper's Scout Rifle concept when I was first getting into guns. I still do. But with true 1-8x and 1-10x variable scopes, really badass bipods, and even a much wider range of calibers that challenge .308, not that you need to, a rifleman can really check all of Cooper's boxes without sacrificing what the scout rail demands in terms of shooting. Again, I still think they are cool. But the question is this - does anyone out there think this is the rifle's most elite form, given the Scout criteria???

 

[S_R]

I always love Scout Rifle concept too, but never committed to it. I think answer is little complicated.
Original Scout idea was not about having most powerful setup. It was about balance, light weight, fast handling. One rifle can do almost everything good enough. Not best at one thing but good at many things.
Modern rifle can outperform scout. Better optics and calibers like 6.5 creed that shoot flatter than .308 or 7-08. Everyone can build rifle that check all practical boxes and even do more than old scout.
But problem not only in gear, it’s philosophy. When you add all new equipment that doesn’t fit criteria now rifle start becoming general purpose rifle.
Not true scout rifle!

 

[Al "Shifty" Schultz]

I'm a huge fan of Mr. Cooper but I think that the idea of the "scout rifle" has morphed or evolved over time from Cooper's era.. technology has improved, cartridges, optics, stock materials, etc... I've always supported the concept, and I embraced the M1A Scout set-up (not necessarily what Mr. Cooper envisioned) but I would say that the black rifles, the Q Fix's, etc... take the concept to the next level, depending upon your choice of optics, etc.

 

[Bill Mazelin]

I always loved Cooper's Scout Rifle concept when I was first getting into guns. I still do. But with true 1-8x and 1-10x variable scopes, really badass bipods, and even a much wider range of calibers that challenge .308, not that you need to, a rifleman can really check all of Cooper's boxes without sacrificing what the scout rail demands in terms of shooting. Again, I still think they are cool. But the question is this - does anyone out there think this is the rifle's most elite form, given the Scout criteria???

I first began reading Col. Cooper in Guns & Ammo Magazine back in the early 80s when he had his “Cooper’s Corner” column. That was also where I was first introduced to his Scout Rifle concept. I must admit, I’m a big fan of the idea. I’ve used my Ruger GSR in multiple locations on the planet. Alaska, California, Wyoming, & South Africa. My wife Carrie & I were on all 3 Scout Rifle Safaris hosted by Richard Mann in ‘17-‘19 in Kimberley South Africa. My brother went with us too in ‘18. All of us have the rifles set up the same way, topped with the Leupold VXR, 1.5-5x33mm Scout Scope with the fire dot duplex reticle. I also now have the only true Scout Rifle I’ve ever seen, it was going to be rifle in South Africa this June, but that trip was scrubbed. It’s a Melvin Forbes NULA rifle with a scout conversion by Jim Brockman.
A short, light, handy and even a “friendly” rifle as Cooper described makes a lot of sense in the field. The real drawback is the lack of really good EER/LER optics.
If Cooper was still around to tinker with the concept, I’m sure some things would’ve evolved. A good LPVO is a way better optic choice than a scout scope, or a red dot. Everything is a trade off. Personally I prefer more of a “stalking rifle” now - still a short, light, handy, easy to silence rifle with a good piece of glass on it, like the new FE/Gunwerks collaboration rifle, “The Pygmy.”
If you want to go down the rabbit hole, get a copy of Richard’s book “The Scout Rifle Study” it’s on Amazon. The definitive work on the concept.
Photo 1: my true custom Scout Rifle
Photo 2: my Ruger GSR on a hunt on Kodiak Island, AK, 2019.
Photo 3: two of my Marlin lever guns set up as “lever scouts.”
Photos 4 & 5: my wife’s Boswell’s Custom stalking rifle. 16” barrel, 6.5CM, Ti action CF barrel & stock.
Photo 6: the original Scout rifle Safari crew from 2017
Photo 7: the cover of Richard’s book.

 

[Chad Adams]

I first began reading Col. Cooper in Guns & Ammo Magazine back in the early 80s when he had his “Cooper’s Corner” column. That was also where I was first introduced to his Scout Rifle concept. I must admit, I’m a big fan of the idea. I’ve used my Ruger GSR in multiple locations on the planet. Alaska, California, Wyoming, & South Africa. My wife Carrie & I were on all 3 Scout Rifle Safaris hosted by Richard Mann in ‘17-‘19 in Kimberley South Africa. My brother went with us too in ‘18. All of us have the rifles set up the same way, topped with the Leupold VXR, 1.5-5x33mm Scout Scope with the fire dot duplex reticle. I also now have the only true Scout Rifle I’ve ever seen, it was going to be rifle in South Africa this June, but that trip was scrubbed. It’s a Melvin Forbes NULA rifle with a scout conversion by Jim Brockman.
A short, light, handy and even a “friendly” rifle as Cooper described makes a lot of sense in the field. The real drawback is the lack of really good EER/LER optics.
If Cooper was still around to tinker with the concept, I’m sure some things would’ve evolved. A good LPVO is a way better optic choice than a scout scope, or a red dot. Everything is a trade off. Personally I prefer more of a “stalking rifle” now - still a short, light, handy, easy to silence rifle with a good piece of glass on it, like the new FE/Gunwerks collaboration rifle, “The Pygmy.”
If you want to go down the rabbit hole, get a copy of Richard’s book “The Scout Rifle Study” it’s on Amazon. The definitive work on the concept.
Photo 1: my true custom Scout Rifle
Photo 2: my Ruger GSR on a hunt on Kodiak Island, AK, 2019.
Photo 3: two of my Marlin lever guns set up as “lever scouts.”
Photos 4 & 5: my wife’s Boswell’s Custom stalking rifle. 16” barrel, 6.5CM, Ti action CF barrel & stock.
Photo 6: the original Scout rifle Safari crew from 2017
Photo 7: the cover of Richard’s book.

I know Richard well, from my days on Rifleman staff. He's a friend. And I thought of him, and what he would call me, ha, when I posted this thread (it would be something along the lines of losing my Hillbilly card, I'm sure). The evolve part is what I'm really fishing for here. The evolution of the riflescope really changed the game. I would argue you could build an AR or Q, like mentioned previously, and hit all the criteria you want, maybe missing on weight. So we do a few more push-ups. I used the Ruger quite a bit, and I have an M1A SOCOM, which I love. But it's kind of a beast too. Here's another point of agreement - nobody built a finer light rifle than Mr. Melvin Forbes. Legend. I'm sure your Scout build is really awesome. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bill Mazelin]

I know Richard well, from my days on Rifleman staff. He's a friend. And I thought of him, and what he would call me, ha, when I posted this thread (it would be something along the lines of losing my Hillbilly card, I'm sure). The evolve part is what I'm really fishing for here. The evolution of the riflescope really changed the game. I would argue you could build an AR or Q, like mentioned previously, and hit all the criteria you want, maybe missing on weight. So we do a few more push-ups. I used the Ruger quite a bit, and I have an M1A SOCOM, which I love. But it's kind of a beast too. Here's another point of agreement - nobody built a finer light rifle than Mr. Melvin Forbes. Legend. I'm sure your Scout build is really awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Next time I speak to Richard, I’ll drop your name Chad. He sure is a good hillbilly! I’ve been lucky to call him a friend since ‘17 when we met in South Africa. Our Ruger GSRs are what my wife & I used in our first Gunsite class prior to taking the rifles to Africa. I like the Ruger because I was able to get it in a lefty.
My M1-A SOCOM-16 (walnut stock) is a beast too! So is the SCAR-17, and the SCAR-20.
I think you’re right, a Q Fix especially now with a SBR setup would be an excellent basis for a silenced scout or stalking rifle. My 12” Fix in 8.6 BLK comes to mind.
Sadly, now that Cooper has been gone for some time the Scout Rifle is even more misunderstood.

 

[jkrispies]

I built this rifle and wrote an article series on it with the original intent of crafting a modern scout: .308win with an 18" barrel, AIS magazine, Masterpiece Arms chassis, titanium brake, adjustable (down to 1/2 pound) trigger, etc. I almost put a 1-10x on it, but then I opted for a 3-18x, otherwise it would have been a real scout. I pulled it out this weekend after not touching it for awhile and was (re)surprised at how compact it was. The fact of the matter is that--since Cooper's day--between improvements in barrels, ammunition, chassis, and optics, this is scout's time to shine.

 

[Milo'sSyndicate]

I always loved Cooper's Scout Rifle concept when I was first getting into guns. I still do. But with true 1-8x and 1-10x variable scopes, really badass bipods, and even a much wider range of calibers that challenge .308, not that you need to, a rifleman can really check all of Cooper's boxes without sacrificing what the scout rail demands in terms of shooting. Again, I still think they are cool. But the question is this - does anyone out there think this is the rifle's most elite form, given the Scout criteria???

Well, what exactly are the Scout criteria, per the Col.? I think it got washed away (his original ideas) by marketing Teams.

My horses today are a Can-Am quad and the dirt bikes. When I think of a "Scout" rifle I think of Recon in the woods or battlefield; the Ruger Alaskan Bush in 35W, just rides in the tool rack of the quad. My truck gun ( I know, it's an overly F'd marketing term today) are the Century Arms VSKA Tactical folders that come with the Ulti-Mak gas rail, where the Mepros sit, BUT does a semi-auto violate the Col's criteria and does/did it have to be x51 in caliber?

Yes, we ARE in another golden era of firearms; ammo selection, re-loading wealth of knowledge at the keyboards, and optics!? Wow! Just listening to the Sundle's Buffalo Bore podcasts in my commute, I've learned about quick tune tips for my bolt actions, Truth in Ammo theology, and the History of these guns. Drive on, and Thank You for eliciting more critical thinking we need in these arenas.

 

[Chad Adams]

35 Whelen in the steel saddle! That's pretty cool. I actually like semi-autos today when thinking about the best builds for a scout. With modern components, you can get the weight down close enough. And you can obviously bolt on anything to build out to spec. The Col. called for the x51 to be sure. But I'd argue with today's ammo Cooper would have expanded his thoughts to evolve around a litany of suitable choices. Even .223, with the right bullet, behaves quite a bit differently than back in the '80s. Though I doubt the good Col. would approve.

My friend (I was fortunate to spend a lot of range days back in the day), the late, great Ed Head of Gunsite, shared his thoughts, and he spent decades with Cooper, on the Scout:

 

[Al "Shifty" Schultz]

From Mr. Cooper's actual article in Gun Digest... Jeff Cooper's ideal scout rifle was designed to be a versatile and practical firearm for various hunting and shooting scenarios. Here are the key features that define Cooper's scout rifle concept:​

• Length: No longer than 39.4 inches
• Weight: No more than 6.6 pounds
• Scope: Forward-mounted fixed-power scope with a magnification of no greater than 3x
• Trigger: Crisp 3-lb. release
• Action: Bolt-action or semi-automatic, two-lug, 90-degree bolt
• Chambering: .308 Winchester or 7mm-08 Remington
• Stock: Synthetic stocks for weight reduction
• Sights: Iron sights or quick-detach rings for use with a scout scope

 

[Chad Adams]

From Mr. Cooper's actual article in Gun Digest... Jeff Cooper's ideal scout rifle was designed to be a versatile and practical firearm for various hunting and shooting scenarios. Here are the key features that define Cooper's scout rifle concept:​

• Length: No longer than 39.4 inches
• Weight: No more than 6.6 pounds
• Scope: Forward-mounted fixed-power scope with a magnification of no greater than 3x
• Trigger: Crisp 3-lb. release
• Action: Bolt-action or semi-automatic, two-lug, 90-degree bolt
• Chambering: .308 Winchester or 7mm-08 Remington
• Stock: Synthetic stocks for weight reduction
• Sights: Iron sights or quick-detach rings for use with a scout scope

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Good pull! I haven't read this in ages. I had forgotten 7mm-08 was ever in his discussion. Pretty cool. If starting from the ground up today, a bunch of folks would likely want the 6.5 CM. But in a 16- or 18-inch barrel, which is what I would want, not sure the 6.5 is the best choice. Advances in ammo beg flirting with going under Cooper's 18.5, imo.

 

[Al "Shifty" Schultz]

Good pull! I haven't read this in ages. I had forgotten 7mm-08 was ever in his discussion. Pretty cool. If starting from the ground up today, a bunch of folks would likely want the 6.5 CM. But in a 16- or 18-inch barrel, which is what I would want, not sure the 6.5 is the best choice. Advances in ammo beg flirting with going under Cooper's 18.5, imo.

Agree

 

[Steve Johnson]

The Scout concept is well thought out, definitely useful and will always be cool. I've got a few and enjoy them...Steyr Scouts, a 336 and a Nagant...but they don't ever seem to be the rifles that I reach for when I go hunting. I believe Scouts have carved a niche that will remain...so maybe not "dead" or "dying" but a majority seem to have spent their dollars in other directions when it comes to primary rigs, myself included.

 

[Al "Shifty" Schultz]

The Scout concept is well thought out, definitely useful and will always be cool. I've got a few and enjoy them...Steyr Scouts, a 336 and a Nagant...but they don't ever seem to be the rifles that I reach for when I go hunting. I believe Scouts have carved a niche that will remain...so maybe not "dead" or "dying" but a majority seem to have spent their dollars in other directions when it comes to primary rigs, myself included.

I think that the general concept is applicable still... But I would agree that how/where hunting styles have changed... It's a close to mid range, stalking style that many people may have gotten away from, but here in the PNW, timber and thick, brushy clear-cuts hunting for black bear and Blacktail deer, often shots are quick, offhand through timber or brush at a fleeting target. Many people nowadays spot and stalk, or glass and shoot or sit in a stand, etc. The concept isn't as popular because the "scout" method isn't practiced as much.

 

[Bill Mazelin]

35 Whelen in the steel saddle! That's pretty cool. I actually like semi-autos today when thinking about the best builds for a scout. With modern components, you can get the weight down close enough. And you can obviously bolt on anything to build out to spec. The Col. called for the x51 to be sure. But I'd argue with today's ammo Cooper would have expanded his thoughts to evolve around a litany of suitable choices. Even .223, with the right bullet, behaves quite a bit differently than back in the '80s. Though I doubt the good Col. would approve.

My friend (I was fortunate to spend a lot of range days back in the day), the late, great Ed Head of Gunsite, shared his thoughts, and he spent decades with Cooper, on the Scout:

243 Winchester is also a Col. approved chambering for a Scout Rifle. Even with better the bullets available today, I'd wager Cooper would still refer to the 223 Rem. as a "Poodle Shooter."
Ed was a favorite instructor of ours. We first met him in early '17 doing the 270 rifle class at Gunsite, with our Ruger GSR rifles in preparation for the soon to be Scout Rifle Safari in the Northern Cape. Ed taught every class I took at Gunsite except the first 223 Carbine class that was an already set class. Our last class with him was the 260 Shotgun/Shotgun ATP classes in early '22, he passed shortly after that. I was able to score a nice S&W Model K-38 combat masterpiece model-15, 4", 38 Special revolver from his estate.

 

[Steve Johnson]

I think that the general concept is applicable still... But I would agree that how/where hunting styles have changed... It's a close to mid range, stalking style that many people may have gotten away from, but here in the PNW, timber and thick, brushy clear-cuts hunting for black bear and Blacktail deer, often shots are quick, offhand through timber or brush at a fleeting target. Many people nowadays spot and stalk, or glass and shoot or sit in a stand, etc. The concept isn't as popular because the "scout" method isn't practiced as much.

ZERO disagreement with that. That said, a lot of hunting in Nebraska is inside 200 yds and in and shots are often quick - perfect Scout stuff. I need to get my Scouts in the mix more...but there is this one damn 6.5x55 that I always go back to...just like a bad girlfriend... lol

 

[S_R]

Don lives and breathes and use scout concept.

On The Scout

This YT channel is all about the outdoors. Hiking, hunting, climbing, bushcraft, survival, travel. It works in conjunction with Don Nguyen's and Emily Duncan's blog Wedoitoutside.com Camera and Editor: Jaden Cole, Carlos Camargo, Jason Dupea

youtube.com

 

[Bill Mazelin]

Don lives and breathes and use scout concept.

On The Scout

This YT channel is all about the outdoors. Hiking, hunting, climbing, bushcraft, survival, travel. It works in conjunction with Don Nguyen's and Emily Duncan's blog Wedoitoutside.com Camera and Editor: Jaden Cole, Carlos Camargo, Jason Dupea

youtube.com

Don is Legit.

 

[Chris M]

35 Whelen in the steel saddle! That's pretty cool. I actually like semi-autos today when thinking about the best builds for a scout. With modern components, you can get the weight down close enough. And you can obviously bolt on anything to build out to spec. The Col. called for the x51 to be sure. But I'd argue with today's ammo Cooper would have expanded his thoughts to evolve around a litany of suitable choices. Even .223, with the right bullet, behaves quite a bit differently than back in the '80s. Though I doubt the good Col. would approve.

My friend (I was fortunate to spend a lot of range days back in the day), the late, great Ed Head of Gunsite, shared his thoughts, and he spent decades with Cooper, on the Scout:

I have this same Ruger in 308. The positives that I found when hunting with it were the length, maneuverability and had decent weight to manage the recoil of the 308. It really was a lot of fun to shoot. The downside, likely just my personal preference and experience, was the having the scope mounted forward. I never got used to that scope mount configuration.

 

[Al "Shifty" Schultz]

I have this same Ruger in 308. The positives that I found when hunting with it were the length, maneuverability and had decent weight to manage the recoil of the 308. It really was a lot of fun to shoot. The downside, likely just my personal preference and experience, was the having the scope mounted forward. I never got used to that scope mount configuration.

Agreed back when Mr. Cooper developed this concept the reflex sights (Aimpoint, Trijicon, etc.) were not really on the scene. I personally like them better for the scout rifle setup as opposed to the scope, especially with a flip out of the way magnifier. That way if you had the opportunity and time to take moderate range shot (few hundred yards at a feeding deer) you could get a rested position and utilize the magnifier.
One scope that I did like for the scout rifle set-up was the Leupold Mk 4 CQ/T...

Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T Tactical Rifle Scope 1-3x 14mm Illuminated CM-R2

The Leupold Mark 4 1-3x14mm CQ/T Tactical Rifle Scope is a revolutionary optical sight for firearms such as the AR-15 and M16, combining the strengths...

www.midwayusa.com