Rehashing an old Model 70 debate

[vogel.r.john]

It’s cold and raining outside so I did what any rational person does and started my annual rifle inspection process. I usually go through and check for rust, dings etc and pulled out my first hunting rifle, a post 64 model 70 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. It has been a players minute since its last range visit and even longer since it’s actually been taken afield, but while I looked it over, I couldn’t help but appreciate how smooth the bolt ran, the crisp trigger and the overall fit and feel. For a moment, I forgot why I have neglected it. Until I remembered…..

I replaced it with a pre 64 model 70 chambered in 30-06 as my main hunting rifle.

The differences between the two are obvious and well documented in every gun rag and forum, and though the quality dropped considerably as Winchester attempted to take on the Remington 700, it leaves me wanting to ask a rather taboo question…

Does the Winchester model 70 post 64 actually suck as much as the critics say?

Discuss

 

[Jake V]

It’s cold and raining outside so I did what any rational person does and started my annual rifle inspection process. I usually go through and check for rust, dings etc and pulled out my first hunting rifle, a post 64 model 70 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. It has been a players minute since its last range visit and even longer since it’s actually been taken afield, but while I looked it over, I couldn’t help but appreciate how smooth the bolt ran, the crisp trigger and the overall fit and feel. For a moment, I forgot why I have neglected it. Until I remembered…..

I replaced it with a pre 64 model 70 chambered in 30-06 as my main hunting rifle.

The differences between the two are obvious and well documented in every gun rag and forum, and though the quality dropped considerably as Winchester attempted to take on the Remington 700, it leaves me wanting to ask a rather taboo question…

Does the Winchester model 70 post 64 actually suck as much as the critics say?

Discuss

I have a modern model 70 featherweight and it is a fantastic rifle. The action is like glass and never malfunctions. Shoots incredible. Trigger is a little heavy, but crisp. I don’t have a pre 64 model 70 to compare, but don’t know how it could get much better, aside from stock work if it’s hand checkered.

 

[beaudette.brian]

Well. I’ve never owned a push feed model 70. So I can’t speak from personal experience. But I’ve owned a handful of the CRF rifles from the late 90s and later but all of them made in the US. I can’t hate on them much at all really. All functioned and shot extremely well. I’ve heard many attest that many of the push feed guns were shooters as well. But my heart lies with the 1950’s and earlier pre 64’s. Lower quality starts showing up long before 1964 in my opinion. But I think the old hunters of the time loved the model 70 for its fit and finish and dependability. As fit and finish went to the wayside I feel like maybe those old timers felt like they were let down by the lack of class being produced at the time. I think those same fellas would drop dead to walk into a gun shop today and see the lazer engraving, matte finishes, composite stocks and similar that make up our ultra utilitarian rifles of today. I love the rust blue and fine checkering on a solid piece of walnut!

 

[Ron Dan]

It’s cold and raining outside so I did what any rational person does and started my annual rifle inspection process. I usually go through and check for rust, dings etc and pulled out my first hunting rifle, a post 64 model 70 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. It has been a players minute since its last range visit and even longer since it’s actually been taken afield, but while I looked it over, I couldn’t help but appreciate how smooth the bolt ran, the crisp trigger and the overall fit and feel. For a moment, I forgot why I have neglected it. Until I remembered…..

I replaced it with a pre 64 model 70 chambered in 30-06 as my main hunting rifle.

The differences between the two are obvious and well documented in every gun rag and forum, and though the quality dropped considerably as Winchester attempted to take on the Remington 700, it leaves me wanting to ask a rather taboo question…

Does the Winchester model 70 post 64 actually suck as much as the critics say?

Discuss

It’s hard to make blanket statements when it’s possible you could find a gun in a batch from the dark ages that shoots tighter and more consistently than any pre-64.

Have you shot the current production Model 70s?

 

[Jake V]

It’s hard to make blanket statements when it’s possible you could find a gun in a batch from the dark ages that shoots tighter and more consistently than any pre-64.

Have you shot the current production Model 70s?

My modern production, made in Portugal shoots lights out. It is featherweight, so I have noticed groups loosening after 3 shots and have to let it cool. Likes a few different loads. 175 grain Federal Terminal Ascents shoot close to half inch and 180 Norma Bondstrikes will touch holes almost every time.

 

[Ron Dan]

My modern production, made in Portugal shoots lights out. It is featherweight, so I have noticed groups loosening after 3 shots and have to let it cool. Likes a few different loads. 175 grain Federal Terminal Ascents shoot close to half inch and 180 Norma Bondstrikes will touch holes almost every time.

For realistic hunting applications, you won’t really be shooting more than 3rds at a time so this is a win for me. Awesome gun and awesome shooting on your part.

 

[robmcleod82]

Im gonna play contrarian here. There is much fanfare and lore about the superiority of pre 64s... i dont get it. They are ok. The post 64s are ok. In my mind the modern crf model 70s are quite nice but at the end of the day they are all mass produced mediocrity. Functional mediocrity? Absolutely! But when people make them out to be akin to a rigby or a holland and holland (pick your bespoke rifle maker) it just drives me nuts. They were and always have been a decent looking and functioning rifle for the common man. They have no doubt killed many a creature on every continent, and many a man has had one handed down from his grand pappy to his pappy to him. I think most guys dont realize the nostalgia that they hang onto when it comes to the model 70. Jack Oconnors influence has long outlived himself.
If you have a pre 64 and you love it and it works for you right on! Same goes with a post 64 push or crf.
I think something else we dont consider is when these pre 64s were around your average guy probably had a sporterized mauser, springfield or enfield of some sort or a lever gun so in comparison the model 70 would have been a cadillac to what was available at the time. And the common man had a 3 gun battery of a 22, a 12g and a centerfire rifle to get the work of putting food on the table done.

 

[Jake V]

Im gonna play contrarian here. There is much fanfare and lore about the superiority of pre 64s... i dont get it. They are ok. The post 64s are ok. In my mind the modern crf model 70s are quite nice but at the end of the day they are all mass produced mediocrity. Functional mediocrity? Absolutely! But when people make them out to be akin to a rigby or a holland and holland (pick your bespoke rifle maker) it just drives me nuts. They were and always have been a decent looking and functioning rifle for the common man. They have no doubt killed many a creature on every continent, and many a man has had one handed down from his grand pappy to his pappy to him. I think most guys dont realize the nostalgia that they hang onto when it comes to the model 70. Jack Oconnors influence has long outlived himself.
If you have a pre 64 and you love it and it works for you right on! Same goes with a post 64 push or crf.
I think something else we dont consider is when these pre 64s were around your average guy probably had a sporterized mauser, springfield or enfield of some sort or a lever gun so in comparison the model 70 would have been a cadillac to what was available at the time. And the common man had a 3 gun battery of a 22, a 12g and a centerfire rifle to get the work of putting food on the table done.

I don’t disagree. Not top shelf or as refined as a handmade gun from a bespoke gunmaker. It’s like a Toyota. There are guns with more refinement, but functionally you won’t find any better. Theirs a reason Rigby and others are all based on Mauser 98, Springfield 1903, or M70 action. I think what it represents is quality for the money. The pre-64s did have quite a bit of hand finishing you wouldn’t find unless you paid quite a bit more. It’s never been a gun that’s out of reach for the average guy, but it’s also been priced for someone that appreciates quality and willing to pay more than the average meat gun. Having one hand fit to a handmade stock puts them in same class imo. I think they also hit the sweet spot on not being so nice, you don’t want to take it in the field and use.

 

[robmcleod82]

There is something to be said about the too nice to take to the field. Hence why i only have a couple wood stocked rifles the thought of banging up a nice piece of walnut really does not sit well with me. As far as once a custom maker starts doing trick moves to any action (well executed ones at least) the action kind of becomes something else in my opinion. I would agree with you as well that there would have been a sting to purchasing a model 70 for most common men but it was acceptable for the level of the rifle. I havent seen any high grade new manufactured 70s in my LGS lately. Assuming they are still a thing?

 

[Jake V]

There is something to be said about the too nice to take to the field. Hence why i only have a couple wood stocked rifles the thought of banging up a nice piece of walnut really does not sit well with me. As far as once a custom maker starts doing trick moves to any action (well executed ones at least) the action kind of becomes something else in my opinion. I would agree with you as well that there would have been a sting to purchasing a model 70 for most common men but it was acceptable for the level of the rifle. I havent seen any high grade new manufactured 70s in my LGS lately. Assuming they are still a thing?

I’ve felt sloppy actions with play, but haven’t had enough experience with high end rifles to tell the difference. My current production M70 is smooth as glass without any play or slop. It shoots so good, I haven’t disassembled to see how well it’s bedded, but have found factory loads that touch holes. I don’t know how you could improve on action or accuracy. The trigger is a little heavy and could be improved, but super crisp without any creep. Again, can’t argue with the accuracy with factory loads. The wood is is definitely nothing impressive, especially the pressed checkering. I may have it restocked someday, but for now I’m content knocking it around.

 

[badgererickson]

........actually suck as much as the critics say?

Discuss

Gently hoist a middle finger in a professional and reasonable manner, to the critics. Until just recently, like in the last 2-3 weeks, EVERYone in the influencers [critics] pools said you NEED to have a 6.5CM or you don't know Abc Xyz about hunting Lmnop. Fock me. If it's a question of room or shine off the apple, gift it to a kid you know and offer to take them on a hunt.....or I'd find you like $200 for that piece of crap.......;-)